Exactly Alan.......the point of this little question post was to point out, if God declares it so, we can just live in the truth of His reality............it was for freedom we were set free!!!
Such a great topic. I will start off by saying this. There is a passage in Hebrews which says, "For by one offering He hath perfected FOREVER them that are being sanctified." ( I think its like 10:14 or something). I have heard it said before "God not only sees you as if you have never sinned but He sees you as obeying Him perfectly." Rob Rufus might have said that. I don't know. The point is, I am having a hard time putting all the pieces together. I may understand that JEsus is our covering and its His blood that makes us perfect. But what about the daily promtings of the Spirit which call us to take a leap of faith? It is written that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. What about the times when we cower out of obeying Jesus? You mean to tell me that GOD STILL sees us as being perfectly obedient our whole lives? I can't reconcile this. The second we say "I put my trust in Jesus' death as payment for my sins" you mean to tell me the Father will look down on us as a perfect gem? The rest of eternity God will tell us we were perfectly obedient our whole lives? I hope this is the case.
Let me ask you this, does Jesus have perfect faith??? Jesus made you perfect forever my friend, that means PERFECT FOREVER. Your performance is no longer the issue, it's HIs life in you, living through you, and as you, that is the important thing!!! Just revel in it!!!
Amazing, amazing so so true!! What's more incredible is that I was having exactly this conversation with my flatmate yesterday. He made some comment about 10 years ago and I had a bit of a shock realising that I was 21 then!!
I think what I felt about the last 10 years is that I WISH, I WISH I'd known about the gospel of grace in all it's fullness and truth so much earlier because the story of my life I think is to "try too hard". Try to be what I think my pastor, my church, my family want me to be. Oh and what I thought God wants me to be!
Tried and failed!
And as Ryan says, stop trying! Stop trying to prove anything! Revel, enjoy, and then the true changes can start!! :D
Uh, Dan, the only "change" that matters is that you are now dead and Christ has become your life. The rest is fruit which is a natural occurrence, or byproduct of LIFE, but LIFE is the point here, not performance.
The only thing to repent of in the New Covenant is from dead works..........not sin. SIN has been dealt with once for all time at the CROSS!! Repent, means turn back to the highest place, it's like a change of mind - we believe in the truth and no longer TRY to perform. We renew our minds with the truth of what Christ accomplished for us at the Cross!!
I like that stop trying and just revel, but here's the thing, the biggest change and most important change happened at the Cross, it was an EXchange, our old life in Adam, our old nature, for HIS life, the spirit, who is now alive in us. We don't have to wait for fruit to come to see if grace is working! GRACE happened to us!! And is always with us, transforming us even if we see it or not!! We really can trust His life in us!!! It's awesome isn't it!!!
I don't know how you do it. Personally, I still sin.
It doesn't define me, and I know that God looks at me and loves me as a joint heir with Christ, covered in the white garment of Christ's righteousness, but while I'm here on earth, I still sin against him and against people I love. I'm so thankful that He and they are quick to offer me forgiveness when I acknowledge it and ask them for it, but I don't ACT in a blameless way here on earth. I do the wrong thing sometimes. I don't beat myself up about it, but it would be hard to live with me if I never owned up to my faults.
I know that we've both come from a place where they did a little too much navel-gazing, but I don't think that the pendulum swings completely in the opposite direction. I think there's a happy medium. Recognizing our faults helps us appreciate God's grace all the more!
Not sure how you got the idea that I think I am perfect. I still sin too! My sin against God is already forgiven and dealt with once for all at the cross! When I sin against others, yes it is good to acknowledge and reconcile, I don't disagree with you there. God does NOT want us to be sin conscious, He wants us to fix our eyes on Jesus. God's grace is more than just forgiveness and justifying us before himself. Jesus is grace personified, and at the cross he removed our old nature, our sin, forgave us and cancelled the law on our lives and raised us up with Him in newness of life, thereby placing His life within us. It's Christ in us our hope of glory. The more we see of Christ and who He is, the more we 'see' our identity, in HIM!! Life is no longer about eating from the tree of good and evil, being conscious of good behaviour vs. bad behaviour. It's about being given NEW life in Christ, where there need be no more consciousness of sins.
Although, God sees me as perfect forever.........even though I still sin. God is outside of time. Jesus Christ was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, so really, God already had redemption in mind before I or you were born. At the Cross I was completely redeemed forever, even though I wasn't even born yet. So even though I sin now, He sees me as He sees Christ! Perfect. I do not act perfect, but God has declared me as perfect forever! I am not going to argue with Him. I think reveling in that amazing truth is very powerful. I think He wants us to be amazed by grace because IT itself is amazing! We don't have to dwell on our sin one bit, to revel in this, it is revolutionary all on it's own!!!
I agree with you there, Lydia. Maybe I was misunderstanding.
I guess I view repenting as trying not to do the same sins again. I don't want to live in guilt, but I think a sorrow for sin is healthy as the Holy Spirit guides our conscience so that are actions are in line with God's will and not our own. As I said - there's a balance...I don't live weighed down by my sins, or, as you said dwelling on them. I couldn't agree with you more there!! God has justified us and declared us righteous - who are we to argue with him!? It's freeing, and knowing that this is his kindness towards us, it leads us to repentence from our sins - not so that we are working our way towards relationship with him, but out of response to the relationship he's already done the work in building with us!
One thing, we do not have to TRY to not do the same sins. What we do, is believe the TRUTH, renewing our minds with how God sees, what Jesus accomplished, revel in His love. He initiates and we respond. When we KNOW the truth of the CROSS, we will not want to sin! We may but I don't think we will be 'stuck' in sinful ways - but even if we are, we can just revel in His love for us. His love compels us and it's HIs life in us and through us -transforming us. We just believe!!!
I agree it's all out of response to HIm...........
15 comments:
No, you don't need. Just live it ... :)
Exactly Alan.......the point of this little question post was to point out, if God declares it so, we can just live in the truth of His reality............it was for freedom we were set free!!!
ha ha - totally! no assembling required. . .
Lydia,
Such a great topic. I will start off by saying this. There is a passage in Hebrews which says, "For by one offering He hath perfected FOREVER them that are being sanctified." ( I think its like 10:14 or something). I have heard it said before "God not only sees you as if you have never sinned but He sees you as obeying Him perfectly." Rob Rufus might have said that. I don't know. The point is, I am having a hard time putting all the pieces together. I may understand that JEsus is our covering and its His blood that makes us perfect. But what about the daily promtings of the Spirit which call us to take a leap of faith? It is written that without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God. What about the times when we cower out of obeying Jesus? You mean to tell me that GOD STILL sees us as being perfectly obedient our whole lives? I can't reconcile this. The second we say "I put my trust in Jesus' death as payment for my sins" you mean to tell me the Father will look down on us as a perfect gem? The rest of eternity God will tell us we were perfectly obedient our whole lives? I hope this is the case.
{{{JORDY}}}
I have missed you my friend!!
Let me ask you this, does Jesus have perfect faith???
Jesus made you perfect forever my friend, that means PERFECT FOREVER. Your performance is no longer the issue, it's HIs life in you, living through you, and as you, that is the important thing!!! Just revel in it!!!
Amazing, amazing so so true!! What's more incredible is that I was having exactly this conversation with my flatmate yesterday. He made some comment about 10 years ago and I had a bit of a shock realising that I was 21 then!!
I think what I felt about the last 10 years is that I WISH, I WISH I'd known about the gospel of grace in all it's fullness and truth so much earlier because the story of my life I think is to "try too hard". Try to be what I think my pastor, my church, my family want me to be. Oh and what I thought God wants me to be!
Tried and failed!
And as Ryan says, stop trying! Stop trying to prove anything! Revel, enjoy, and then the true changes can start!! :D
We're justified in his sight, but we still do wrong from which we need to repent. Right?
Uh, Dan, the only "change" that matters is that you are now dead and Christ has become your life. The rest is fruit which is a natural occurrence, or byproduct of LIFE, but LIFE is the point here, not performance.
EILEEN!!!
The only thing to repent of in the New Covenant is from dead works..........not sin. SIN has been dealt with once for all time at the CROSS!! Repent, means turn back to the highest place, it's like a change of mind - we believe in the truth and no longer TRY to perform. We renew our minds with the truth of what Christ accomplished for us at the Cross!!
Dan,
I like that stop trying and just revel, but here's the thing, the biggest change and most important change happened at the Cross, it was an EXchange, our old life in Adam, our old nature, for HIS life, the spirit, who is now alive in us. We don't have to wait for fruit to come to see if grace is working! GRACE happened to us!! And is always with us, transforming us even if we see it or not!! We really can trust His life in us!!! It's awesome isn't it!!!
I don't know how you do it. Personally, I still sin.
It doesn't define me, and I know that God looks at me and loves me as a joint heir with Christ, covered in the white garment of Christ's righteousness, but while I'm here on earth, I still sin against him and against people I love. I'm so thankful that He and they are quick to offer me forgiveness when I acknowledge it and ask them for it, but I don't ACT in a blameless way here on earth. I do the wrong thing sometimes. I don't beat myself up about it, but it would be hard to live with me if I never owned up to my faults.
I know that we've both come from a place where they did a little too much navel-gazing, but I don't think that the pendulum swings completely in the opposite direction. I think there's a happy medium. Recognizing our faults helps us appreciate God's grace all the more!
Eileen,
Not sure how you got the idea that I think I am perfect. I still sin too! My sin against God is already forgiven and dealt with once for all at the cross! When I sin against others, yes it is good to acknowledge and reconcile, I don't disagree with you there.
God does NOT want us to be sin conscious, He wants us to fix our eyes on Jesus. God's grace is more than just forgiveness and justifying us before himself. Jesus is grace personified, and at the cross he removed our old nature, our sin, forgave us and cancelled the law on our lives and raised us up with Him in newness of life, thereby placing His life within us. It's Christ in us our hope of glory. The more we see of Christ and who He is, the more we 'see' our identity, in HIM!! Life is no longer about eating from the tree of good and evil, being conscious of good behaviour vs. bad behaviour. It's about being given NEW life in Christ, where there need be no more consciousness of sins.
Although, God sees me as perfect forever.........even though I still sin. God is outside of time. Jesus Christ was the lamb slain before the foundation of the world, so really, God already had redemption in mind before I or you were born. At the Cross I was completely redeemed forever, even though I wasn't even born yet. So even though I sin now, He sees me as He sees Christ! Perfect. I do not act perfect, but God has declared me as perfect forever! I am not going to argue with Him. I think reveling in that amazing truth is very powerful. I think He wants us to be amazed by grace because IT itself is amazing! We don't have to dwell on our sin one bit, to revel in this, it is revolutionary all on it's own!!!
I agree with you there, Lydia. Maybe I was misunderstanding.
I guess I view repenting as trying not to do the same sins again. I don't want to live in guilt, but I think a sorrow for sin is healthy as the Holy Spirit guides our conscience so that are actions are in line with God's will and not our own. As I said - there's a balance...I don't live weighed down by my sins, or, as you said dwelling on them. I couldn't agree with you more there!! God has justified us and declared us righteous - who are we to argue with him!? It's freeing, and knowing that this is his kindness towards us, it leads us to repentence from our sins - not so that we are working our way towards relationship with him, but out of response to the relationship he's already done the work in building with us!
What an awesome, loving God we have!! :)
He is SO awesome Eileen!!
One thing, we do not have to TRY to not do the same sins. What we do, is believe the TRUTH, renewing our minds with how God sees, what Jesus accomplished, revel in His love. He initiates and we respond. When we KNOW the truth of the CROSS, we will not want to sin! We may but I don't think we will be 'stuck' in sinful ways - but even if we are, we can just revel in His love for us. His love compels us and it's HIs life in us and through us -transforming us. We just believe!!!
I agree it's all out of response to HIm...........
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